God, yes, I am SO SICK OF THIS SHIT. The aggressive policing of women for any flaws knows no bounds. And once a flaw is discovered, you can never recover. The "incest" was in childhood, for God's sake.
I have none of the attention that Dunham has, praise be, but this culture affects any woman who dares to speak. I am afraid to publicly make book recommendations because of the hatred those recs garner. People scroll through any list I ever make, scanning for a problematic author, or idea, or a person who has ever been less than perfect, and then they email me their critiques.
I really wish we could all--especially those of us in the feminist movement--move away from the idea that pop culture critique and celebrity analysis is a valid course of inquiry. Debating whether a person is problematic, or feminist, or weaving them into your dissertation to be edgy and cool, or whatever, is dehumanizing and just creates a culture in which women (and other minorities) live in terror of speaking.
Meanwhile men openly and with impunity admit to every variety of evil, with limited or no consequences.
Thank you for writing this. I will be happy to throw a pie at anyone who whines about it.
I often don't even realize how much it affects me. But yesterday I spent some time going through past posts to remove authors recently discovered to be "problematic" after an influx of angry comments about them. My husband was like, "wtf are you doing?" And I had to pause and reflect on the fact that I was taking myself away from actual activism and actual work to edit out any trace of imperfection because people will literally threaten your family over it.
In this situation the problem that needs fixing is the people feeling ok to threaten your family over your words, surely? And the fact that a preprogrammed voice in my head just whispered: “but what if you don’t agree with some of Zawn’s words and you’re publicly seen as an apologist for views you don’t share?”.
That is one of the problems that needs fixing. Yes. But it's far from the only one. The belief that we are entitled to endlessly publicly criticize a person until they have been fully silenced is another. So too is the idea that it's meaningful feminist discourse to debate the value, ethics, goodness, etc of a single human being
This is the realest. Like who is all this effort and bookkeeping helping?? Removing all "tainted" resources from even our archives just leaves us further under-resourced, it doesn't do anything to effect change, culturally, and it promotes the kind of mindset that puts more effort into being right than being effective when, given the dire state of things, we need everyone who cares to prioritize showing up, warts and all.
Thank you for laying this out with your usual clarity. Those of us who remember what happened to Sinead O’Connor will probably see parallels. In my case retrospective ones.
This is a bit of a tangent, but this comment reminds me of Why Sinead O'Connor Matters by Allyson McCabe. This book gives a comprehensive account of this fiercely courageous woman who lived her complicated life in view of a brutal public. Yes, living and creating without apology, but O'Connor obviously suffered. Her line 'I do not have what I do not want' inspires me. Enthusiastically recommending the McCabe book.
and can attest to how incredible and impervious Lena is to shame and yet still open to criticism, growth and authenticity. I am always amazed at how she sees to the heart of culture in regards to white het women and how brazenly and bravely she remains the lightning rod for us and her own values. I don't agree with everything she is and does OF COURSE but it's a better world for us all with her in it.
Really well said. It’s incredibly rare to see examples of someone who can receive legit criticism, take it in without growing defensive, and course correct. Those of us who care about other people want more of this, yet struggle to offer people doing so the space to be human.
My mother is nominally an outspoken feminist and she specifically raised me to be one too. I'm grateful for her example and overt teaching in a lot of ways, but my sister and I were expected to abide by society's rules and expectations for women. If we broke those rules and expectations, we had to break the rules in the attractive/cutely rebellious/with our makeup looking perfect/like Jane Fonda in The China Syndrome way.
If I say I have to piss like a racehorse, I'd better use maximum comedic timing to subvert expectations and I'd better look like a china doll while I say it. It's not acceptable for me to appear to be someone who would unironically say such a thing. If I break into a boys' club, I have to be "not like other girls," look fabulous doing it, and make no mistakes. Any rules I break have to be done with a wink, which means never once relaxing and just trying shit the way Lena Dunham does.
Dunham makes me deeply uncomfortable for reasons I can't entirely pinpoint. As a good little former English major and current Olympic-level rationalizer, I can certainly come up with plausible-sounding reasons for my discomfort. But I suspect much of it comes back to that early training that taught me women can do anything, as long as they also follow the rules. Apparently, my mother took the Laurel Thatcher Ulrich quote about well-behaved women seldom making history as a challenge. I was raised to behave *and* make history.
I'm sure I'm not alone in that, which may explain a good portion of the Dunham antipathy from other women, femme, and non-binary folks who feel constrained by the rules she breaks.
Wow oh wow this is RESONATING in a pretty uncomfortable way for me as I reflect on how I still sometimes move through the world as a feminist and how that reflects on what i demonstrated to my daughter in the early years.
I hope Lena reads this. I think it’ll be a welcome break for her after the hit pieces she’s usually subjected to.
I really like how this piece really made me consider if I have steered clear of her oeuvre because she’s been held up as a “disgusting woman” in the media….we all have to confront our own unconscious biases…a process that seems to be eternal.
Btw it’s kind of funny how if a man had made some of the mistakes she did there would be an army of people screaming about him possibly autistic or neurodivergent..I never see the same for women..js…that excuse only works one way.
You’ve underscored so clearly here what a potential tool of misogyny shame - particularly sexually-tinged shame - is, and thus how compellingly & satisfyingly subversive Lena D is in her shamelessness. I also like your attention to her many missteps and her frank willingness to acknowledge, address and take steps to redress them, which also suggests a positive way forward, out of potential shame sinkholes.
My perspective as a man is I wish women could spend less time policing one another and keep the focus on the real problem, the men. I chose 'could' and not 'would' because I know I'm in the minority and that patriarchy very much depends on this policing, and women are expected to participate in it at the risk of consequences for not doing so.
The way I think of it is anyone and everyone are capable of doing bad things. But the impact of your bad things depends on how much power you have. So I'm much less concerned with bad things coming from women, or from people of color, than I am the ones that come from the rich white men who own everything and control everything. And every time someone else takes on criticism - because yes people are flawed - those guys win.
I’m shocked we don't have more women like Dunham writing and producing TV and movies. Film school has been 50% women for a long time, and women and girls have a strong presence on social media. So why are only 20% of TV-filmmakers women? I was expecting a small army of strident young women to come through by now.
I want to see more young women making fabulous content and mistakes and developing into great filmmakers. But I think after school women learn they will not get the financing or opportunities unless they are three times better prepared than their white, male counterparts and it must be overwhelming and discouraging.
I find our reluctance to publicly claim any appreciation for her and/or her work incredibly fascinating. Who gets to decide who is disgusting? Who is screwing up and acknowledging the harm to which they’ve contributed? Who gets another chance? It mostly seems to be white men, ironically, given that they cause a LOT of harm and thrive amongst harm. Despite NGAF what the white male collective wants me to think or how they think I should behave, I have felt the judgment of appreciating anything about Dunham and her work.
This is so good. I need to read again and think about it. I believe also ties into calling white women “Karen,” which came along just as we were entering #metoo and #believewomen. Misogynist will pretty much do and say anything to shut women up/down. It’s exhausting.
A complicated figure, for sure. Are you familiar with her podcast series, The C-Word? It examines some of these topics quite directly. Highly recommend.
We are all complicated figures if we are honest with ourselves. The difference is that few of us are subjected to the sort of lifelong scrutiny that women in the public eye experience
Kate, I found this an insightful, powerful essay, and especially liked it because it is supportive of women, such as Lena Dunham, who do not follow societal rules; indeed, who are not acquainted with the filters that would give them the opportunity to choose whether to follow those rules.
"She lacks the kind of social filter that keeps most of us from spilling. That is a foible that reveals problematic thoughts and actions that most of us are able to keep hidden." I share the lack of that kind of social filter, and was often told that I "shouldn't have said that," especially when I had said something that was true but that might have disturbed someone; and "Don't you know what kinds of things (statements, assertions, emotions) are not to be expressed in public?" [No, usually I hadn't known.] The disclosure of problematic (disgraceful, em-bare-ass-ing) thoughts (wishes, feelings, intentions) -- whoa, I have been there.
I watched the first episode of "Too Much," and was impressed ... also discomfited! But I "got" every one of her self-exposures that made people/me squirm.
The way she is treated quiets many women who would otherwise speak out. We can't get it right. So no one speaks until doing so becomes more important than the consequences. Imagine the roar if none of us were afraid.
"When a person is painted as disgusting, and held to be beyond the pale, there are powerful incentives for the rest of us not to tangle with them, lest we be deemed disgusting too." This is just not true for men. Associating with other disgusting men is what the Epstein Sleaze is all about. It's taken years and years before anyone bothered to notice. It's not just that women are held to a higher standard---there IS simply no standard for men---or, perhaps, the standard for men is just the opposite---the sleazier the better. Disgust is the sought-after prize.
Admittedly, I never watched Girls (I think it was on a premium/paid channel?) and therefore haven't followed Lena Dunham's career much but that last paragraph is spot on.
I was a fan of Dunham’s work. I was fascinated by her early feature Tiny Furniture and was hooked on Girls, which was far better than it was given credit for by a misogynistic media. I read her book. I’m also a fan of your writing, and have read your books, and I agree with so much of what you say about how women, particularly those who don’t toe the line, in appearance or behaviour, are shamed and ostracised. BUT—and it is a big but—even if you overlook the racial insensitivity and grey-area incest (and I’d argue you let Dunham off the hook a little too easily for the former) Dunham defended a friend of hers, Girls writer Murray Miller, after he was credibly accused of sexual assault, and that is the point at which I, and many other feminists, could no longer support her. She apologised, more than a year later, as far as I recall, but not before the damage to the victim's credibility had been done. I don't think your argument is complete without acknowledging the real harm Dunham has caused.
I only discovered Lena Dunham within the last year, thanks to Amazon, the platform I swore I'd never touch again given Jeff Bezos' affiliation with Trump. I got on it specifically to watch Girls because my SIL recommended it. And here I am, making decisions about what is problematic and where I make allowances. Full circle!
Lena's capacity to keep creating in the face of horrid humanity in the comments is inspiring. I've been in a spiral of body shame for much of my life and her lack of shame is thing I love most about her and her work.
What you said about being afraid to share controversial artists is the thing I'm most taking on board from this. Confronting the fear in being disliked by association is a must do in taking down misogyny. Thank you 🙏🏽
God, yes, I am SO SICK OF THIS SHIT. The aggressive policing of women for any flaws knows no bounds. And once a flaw is discovered, you can never recover. The "incest" was in childhood, for God's sake.
I have none of the attention that Dunham has, praise be, but this culture affects any woman who dares to speak. I am afraid to publicly make book recommendations because of the hatred those recs garner. People scroll through any list I ever make, scanning for a problematic author, or idea, or a person who has ever been less than perfect, and then they email me their critiques.
I really wish we could all--especially those of us in the feminist movement--move away from the idea that pop culture critique and celebrity analysis is a valid course of inquiry. Debating whether a person is problematic, or feminist, or weaving them into your dissertation to be edgy and cool, or whatever, is dehumanizing and just creates a culture in which women (and other minorities) live in terror of speaking.
Meanwhile men openly and with impunity admit to every variety of evil, with limited or no consequences.
Thank you for writing this. I will be happy to throw a pie at anyone who whines about it.
This is SO WELL PUT. I am really affected by and over the fear too. Thank you
I often don't even realize how much it affects me. But yesterday I spent some time going through past posts to remove authors recently discovered to be "problematic" after an influx of angry comments about them. My husband was like, "wtf are you doing?" And I had to pause and reflect on the fact that I was taking myself away from actual activism and actual work to edit out any trace of imperfection because people will literally threaten your family over it.
What are we even doing? WHY.
In this situation the problem that needs fixing is the people feeling ok to threaten your family over your words, surely? And the fact that a preprogrammed voice in my head just whispered: “but what if you don’t agree with some of Zawn’s words and you’re publicly seen as an apologist for views you don’t share?”.
That is one of the problems that needs fixing. Yes. But it's far from the only one. The belief that we are entitled to endlessly publicly criticize a person until they have been fully silenced is another. So too is the idea that it's meaningful feminist discourse to debate the value, ethics, goodness, etc of a single human being
This is the realest. Like who is all this effort and bookkeeping helping?? Removing all "tainted" resources from even our archives just leaves us further under-resourced, it doesn't do anything to effect change, culturally, and it promotes the kind of mindset that puts more effort into being right than being effective when, given the dire state of things, we need everyone who cares to prioritize showing up, warts and all.
Just watched this great analysis that is speaking to this cultural issue more generally:
https://youtu.be/oG5EpzGmAtA?si=S-ZYdwWDZR30a64_
Thank you for laying this out with your usual clarity. Those of us who remember what happened to Sinead O’Connor will probably see parallels. In my case retrospective ones.
This is a bit of a tangent, but this comment reminds me of Why Sinead O'Connor Matters by Allyson McCabe. This book gives a comprehensive account of this fiercely courageous woman who lived her complicated life in view of a brutal public. Yes, living and creating without apology, but O'Connor obviously suffered. Her line 'I do not have what I do not want' inspires me. Enthusiastically recommending the McCabe book.
yes to all this. I was also intimately around during the making of GIRLS https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/t-magazine/jemima-kirke-workout-brooklyn-strength.html
and can attest to how incredible and impervious Lena is to shame and yet still open to criticism, growth and authenticity. I am always amazed at how she sees to the heart of culture in regards to white het women and how brazenly and bravely she remains the lightning rod for us and her own values. I don't agree with everything she is and does OF COURSE but it's a better world for us all with her in it.
Beautifully put! Thank you ❤️
Really well said. It’s incredibly rare to see examples of someone who can receive legit criticism, take it in without growing defensive, and course correct. Those of us who care about other people want more of this, yet struggle to offer people doing so the space to be human.
My mother is nominally an outspoken feminist and she specifically raised me to be one too. I'm grateful for her example and overt teaching in a lot of ways, but my sister and I were expected to abide by society's rules and expectations for women. If we broke those rules and expectations, we had to break the rules in the attractive/cutely rebellious/with our makeup looking perfect/like Jane Fonda in The China Syndrome way.
If I say I have to piss like a racehorse, I'd better use maximum comedic timing to subvert expectations and I'd better look like a china doll while I say it. It's not acceptable for me to appear to be someone who would unironically say such a thing. If I break into a boys' club, I have to be "not like other girls," look fabulous doing it, and make no mistakes. Any rules I break have to be done with a wink, which means never once relaxing and just trying shit the way Lena Dunham does.
Dunham makes me deeply uncomfortable for reasons I can't entirely pinpoint. As a good little former English major and current Olympic-level rationalizer, I can certainly come up with plausible-sounding reasons for my discomfort. But I suspect much of it comes back to that early training that taught me women can do anything, as long as they also follow the rules. Apparently, my mother took the Laurel Thatcher Ulrich quote about well-behaved women seldom making history as a challenge. I was raised to behave *and* make history.
I'm sure I'm not alone in that, which may explain a good portion of the Dunham antipathy from other women, femme, and non-binary folks who feel constrained by the rules she breaks.
Wow oh wow this is RESONATING in a pretty uncomfortable way for me as I reflect on how I still sometimes move through the world as a feminist and how that reflects on what i demonstrated to my daughter in the early years.
I hope Lena reads this. I think it’ll be a welcome break for her after the hit pieces she’s usually subjected to.
I really like how this piece really made me consider if I have steered clear of her oeuvre because she’s been held up as a “disgusting woman” in the media….we all have to confront our own unconscious biases…a process that seems to be eternal.
Btw it’s kind of funny how if a man had made some of the mistakes she did there would be an army of people screaming about him possibly autistic or neurodivergent..I never see the same for women..js…that excuse only works one way.
You’ve underscored so clearly here what a potential tool of misogyny shame - particularly sexually-tinged shame - is, and thus how compellingly & satisfyingly subversive Lena D is in her shamelessness. I also like your attention to her many missteps and her frank willingness to acknowledge, address and take steps to redress them, which also suggests a positive way forward, out of potential shame sinkholes.
My perspective as a man is I wish women could spend less time policing one another and keep the focus on the real problem, the men. I chose 'could' and not 'would' because I know I'm in the minority and that patriarchy very much depends on this policing, and women are expected to participate in it at the risk of consequences for not doing so.
The way I think of it is anyone and everyone are capable of doing bad things. But the impact of your bad things depends on how much power you have. So I'm much less concerned with bad things coming from women, or from people of color, than I am the ones that come from the rich white men who own everything and control everything. And every time someone else takes on criticism - because yes people are flawed - those guys win.
I’m shocked we don't have more women like Dunham writing and producing TV and movies. Film school has been 50% women for a long time, and women and girls have a strong presence on social media. So why are only 20% of TV-filmmakers women? I was expecting a small army of strident young women to come through by now.
I want to see more young women making fabulous content and mistakes and developing into great filmmakers. But I think after school women learn they will not get the financing or opportunities unless they are three times better prepared than their white, male counterparts and it must be overwhelming and discouraging.
I find our reluctance to publicly claim any appreciation for her and/or her work incredibly fascinating. Who gets to decide who is disgusting? Who is screwing up and acknowledging the harm to which they’ve contributed? Who gets another chance? It mostly seems to be white men, ironically, given that they cause a LOT of harm and thrive amongst harm. Despite NGAF what the white male collective wants me to think or how they think I should behave, I have felt the judgment of appreciating anything about Dunham and her work.
This is so good. I need to read again and think about it. I believe also ties into calling white women “Karen,” which came along just as we were entering #metoo and #believewomen. Misogynist will pretty much do and say anything to shut women up/down. It’s exhausting.
A complicated figure, for sure. Are you familiar with her podcast series, The C-Word? It examines some of these topics quite directly. Highly recommend.
We are all complicated figures if we are honest with ourselves. The difference is that few of us are subjected to the sort of lifelong scrutiny that women in the public eye experience
Kate, I found this an insightful, powerful essay, and especially liked it because it is supportive of women, such as Lena Dunham, who do not follow societal rules; indeed, who are not acquainted with the filters that would give them the opportunity to choose whether to follow those rules.
"She lacks the kind of social filter that keeps most of us from spilling. That is a foible that reveals problematic thoughts and actions that most of us are able to keep hidden." I share the lack of that kind of social filter, and was often told that I "shouldn't have said that," especially when I had said something that was true but that might have disturbed someone; and "Don't you know what kinds of things (statements, assertions, emotions) are not to be expressed in public?" [No, usually I hadn't known.] The disclosure of problematic (disgraceful, em-bare-ass-ing) thoughts (wishes, feelings, intentions) -- whoa, I have been there.
I watched the first episode of "Too Much," and was impressed ... also discomfited! But I "got" every one of her self-exposures that made people/me squirm.
The way she is treated quiets many women who would otherwise speak out. We can't get it right. So no one speaks until doing so becomes more important than the consequences. Imagine the roar if none of us were afraid.
"When a person is painted as disgusting, and held to be beyond the pale, there are powerful incentives for the rest of us not to tangle with them, lest we be deemed disgusting too." This is just not true for men. Associating with other disgusting men is what the Epstein Sleaze is all about. It's taken years and years before anyone bothered to notice. It's not just that women are held to a higher standard---there IS simply no standard for men---or, perhaps, the standard for men is just the opposite---the sleazier the better. Disgust is the sought-after prize.
Admittedly, I never watched Girls (I think it was on a premium/paid channel?) and therefore haven't followed Lena Dunham's career much but that last paragraph is spot on.
I was a fan of Dunham’s work. I was fascinated by her early feature Tiny Furniture and was hooked on Girls, which was far better than it was given credit for by a misogynistic media. I read her book. I’m also a fan of your writing, and have read your books, and I agree with so much of what you say about how women, particularly those who don’t toe the line, in appearance or behaviour, are shamed and ostracised. BUT—and it is a big but—even if you overlook the racial insensitivity and grey-area incest (and I’d argue you let Dunham off the hook a little too easily for the former) Dunham defended a friend of hers, Girls writer Murray Miller, after he was credibly accused of sexual assault, and that is the point at which I, and many other feminists, could no longer support her. She apologised, more than a year later, as far as I recall, but not before the damage to the victim's credibility had been done. I don't think your argument is complete without acknowledging the real harm Dunham has caused.
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/lena-dunham-girls-writer-murray-miller-sexual-assault
Thank you, I had completely missed that. And I completely agree. Thank you again for calling this out.
I only discovered Lena Dunham within the last year, thanks to Amazon, the platform I swore I'd never touch again given Jeff Bezos' affiliation with Trump. I got on it specifically to watch Girls because my SIL recommended it. And here I am, making decisions about what is problematic and where I make allowances. Full circle!
Lena's capacity to keep creating in the face of horrid humanity in the comments is inspiring. I've been in a spiral of body shame for much of my life and her lack of shame is thing I love most about her and her work.
What you said about being afraid to share controversial artists is the thing I'm most taking on board from this. Confronting the fear in being disliked by association is a must do in taking down misogyny. Thank you 🙏🏽