I was a slightly chubby kid in a family of extremely thin people, and at the age of 10 or 11, I was told that I was borderline fat and should endeavor not to increase further in size. I didn’t know how to do that, and it set off a decade plus of extreme self torture. First anorexia and compulsive exercising, then laxative abuse, then full blown vomit bulimia, then binge eating. It kind of ruined my life. I still don’t really trust my parents or my siblings. It exposed the underlying sociopathy of society at an age when I still needed to believe that people truly cared. Don’t do this to your kids, folks!
I’m 56 and never raised a child but I teach traditional-aged college students: I read this book with the idea that it could improve my ability to reach/teach Gen Z. I’ve just had two copies sent to two young friends (early 30s), mothers of young girls. Last night I had dinner with one of them and two other couples: there were five children under four at the table. My friend shared that her 4-yr-old came home from school and said, “My teacher says donuts are bad.” Another mother at the table has a 7-mo-old who’s at the 95th percentile for weight. The pediatrician quizzed her hard about feeding—is she using formula or any solid food yet? Nope, just breast milk. This child is a package—the most smiley healthy cherubic baby you could imagine. And the mother is a physician’s assistant by training. There were more stories and I was like, Wow, this is ALL in the book. I feel a sense of urgency to share it with parents.
One thing I will say is that I wanted a more pointed (scathing?) critique of capitalism and what it has done to the complex systems that determine health or the lack of it, and this includes food, but not just food. In the same way that fat is coded as a failure of the individual in our fatphobic individualistic system, so are we also expected to make individual choices to push back against the corporate erosion of our life-sustaining systems and networks. The social justice dimension of this problem cannot be overstated. Most readers of this book will be relatively knowledgeable and resourced people with some margin of resistance. Health, in every sense of the word, should be, but is not, a basic human right in this country.
Thank you for doing this work! So important and valuable. On the second point, I just added Retail Inequality to my reading list. It may be of interest to you too?
In education this idea of “deviation is not deviance” is critical when we consider how to equitably educate children who come with all different kinds of minds and cultural backgrounds. The way we think about bodies has lagged sadly behind this. I’ve learned and continue to learn so much from Virginia Sole-Smith’s work (my husband and I are slowly book-clubbing it, as we also have a young child). Grateful for this post, for those who are considering diving in.
Here's my tweet from 2021: "I wonder if soon (if this is not already happening) meds will be recommended to so-called normal wt people to prevent future weight gain." Unfortunately I was prescient.
I’ve considered your first two books helpful in my second-half-of-life attempt to become a better human being (and have frequently claimed they ought to be part of a grade school curriculum), and I have the same expectation of the third.
It is inspiring to see these topics addressed by a proper philosopher.
Is “fatphobia” the right word? What you are describing is more of a loathing of or disdain for fat people, not a fear of them. It’s like gynophobia versus misogyny, the former being a fear of women and the latter being a loathing or hatred of women. I’m sure one can find people who actually fear fat people but isn’t the far larger problem a loathing of fat people? By using “phobia,” it’s easy for people to dismiss concerns with, “I don’t fear fat people. So that term obviously doesn’t even apply to me.”
I take the point but use "fatphobia" to be usefully parallel to other social justice concerns like homophobia and transphobia. I also think there *is* a prevalent fear-based component of fatphobia, as this post hopefully brings out via Sole-Smith's work.
In this case particularly I'd argue that fatphobia is the appropriate word to use as parents are so afraid if their children becoming fat that they ignore health issues resulting in weight loss or refuse them medications that may cause weight gain.
Also consider Lindley's words:
I get why people prefer using other terms over fatphobia, and you do you, but I’ve had doctors who couldn’t force themselves to touch me and people starve themselves not to look like me, so maybe lay off on “It’s not a phobia.”
Ashline labels it as nitpicking (or, like many people complain, “Oh, that’s just semantics” — as if precision is irrelevant). People can use any term they want for the concept. But she does not address the fact many people hear “phobia” and will simply dismiss the label as inapplicable to them because they don’t actually fear fat people. We don’t use “gynophobia” for people who hate or loath women (because hate ≠︎ fear) — instead, we use misogyny.
but they DO fear fatness. Just as a homo- or trans- phobic person fears homosexuality and transness, not individual gay or trans people, but the acceptance of gayness/transness as equally legitimate to any more "mainstream" sexuality or identity. Likewise, our culture of fatphobia does not necessarily mean that individual thin people fear individual fat people. But individuals, and, more crucially, our culture at large, do fear fatness and treat fatness as something to be avoided for oneself and ones children and (at best) pitied in those who have not avoided it. We might not be "afraid" of our fat friends and neighbors, but we *are* and are taught to be afraid of fatness itself.
GCS, it’s a bit like “Abolish the Police!” — if people do not mean “abolish” the police, then they shouldn’t use that term. If they mean reform, even radical reform, they are not seeking to abolish the police. Same with the “prison abolition movement” — few believe we can actually abolish prisons (for those who do, using “abolish” is very helpful to a reader or listener because that is what the writer or speaker actually means). But, in contrast to philosophy or law, sloppy use of language in politics is common — and it makes understanding each other harder if not impossible.
We have a four-month old baby, and I’ve been really struck by all the fatphobia surrounding the eternal debate about breastfeeding vs. formula.
Breastfeeding is great. But the idea that you are “dooming” your child to a life of struggle with weight gain if you give your baby formula is so intense. I’ve heard it from friends and family.
(I think I remember Virginia Sole-Smith writing about this somewhere!)
Oof 100%. This whole conversation drives me to distraction, given (a) there is so little evidence of the benefits of breastfeeding over formula if you have access to clean water (and high-quality formula, of course), and (b) the resulting fatphobia of the grasping-at-straws attempts to defend the "breast is best" line. Emily Oster is good on this, as is Virginia. Wishing you happiness and peace on this journey, whatever your family decides works best for you all.
I mean, by all means, breastfeed, if that’s your or your partner's jam. But formula is also great! And it allows non-gestating partners to participate more easily and fully, which is not nothing imo
Kids are not just prone to fatness.. it’s not genetic. Genetics account for like 10 extra pounds not obesity! Why are more and more children and adults obese today?? More than half the population?! Doctors are not fatphobic they’re trying to steer the majority of the population away from the long list of weight related Illnesses.
Hey Jennifer, perhaps you could read the book, further explore all the links thoughtfully included here, and, here is the crucial part: not leave a comment until you can contribute something other than fat hatred. It does real harm to other readers and is based on ignorance that you have been given every opportunity to correct before you commented on this topic!
Yup! You’re throwing fat kids under the bus because of something all our best data shows us is not actually happening, but it is clear to me you are doubling down on your ignorance out of a sense that you are the savior here by asking “but what about the children?” You have some wonderful company with the very worst bigots who love to hide their own fear behind that question. I am sure that will be a comfort to you when you realize that no one here wants to praise your lazy ignorance.
Heart disease is showing up in children who are overweight and the trauma of being an overweight kid is terrible. All you women who are promoting child fatness .. it’s abuse! Shame on you
Mikhaila Peterson eventually found remission from her health issues through what she labeled the 'lion diet' where she eats meat (beef/lamb) and drinks water. I used something similar to put my T2D in remission. Even though we eat a similar diet, we look very different! 😅 Diversity is a thing!
I was a slightly chubby kid in a family of extremely thin people, and at the age of 10 or 11, I was told that I was borderline fat and should endeavor not to increase further in size. I didn’t know how to do that, and it set off a decade plus of extreme self torture. First anorexia and compulsive exercising, then laxative abuse, then full blown vomit bulimia, then binge eating. It kind of ruined my life. I still don’t really trust my parents or my siblings. It exposed the underlying sociopathy of society at an age when I still needed to believe that people truly cared. Don’t do this to your kids, folks!
Exactly this. And I'm so sorry. Sending solidarity
I’m 56 and never raised a child but I teach traditional-aged college students: I read this book with the idea that it could improve my ability to reach/teach Gen Z. I’ve just had two copies sent to two young friends (early 30s), mothers of young girls. Last night I had dinner with one of them and two other couples: there were five children under four at the table. My friend shared that her 4-yr-old came home from school and said, “My teacher says donuts are bad.” Another mother at the table has a 7-mo-old who’s at the 95th percentile for weight. The pediatrician quizzed her hard about feeding—is she using formula or any solid food yet? Nope, just breast milk. This child is a package—the most smiley healthy cherubic baby you could imagine. And the mother is a physician’s assistant by training. There were more stories and I was like, Wow, this is ALL in the book. I feel a sense of urgency to share it with parents.
One thing I will say is that I wanted a more pointed (scathing?) critique of capitalism and what it has done to the complex systems that determine health or the lack of it, and this includes food, but not just food. In the same way that fat is coded as a failure of the individual in our fatphobic individualistic system, so are we also expected to make individual choices to push back against the corporate erosion of our life-sustaining systems and networks. The social justice dimension of this problem cannot be overstated. Most readers of this book will be relatively knowledgeable and resourced people with some margin of resistance. Health, in every sense of the word, should be, but is not, a basic human right in this country.
Thank you for doing this work! So important and valuable. On the second point, I just added Retail Inequality to my reading list. It may be of interest to you too?
Added! Thank you!
In education this idea of “deviation is not deviance” is critical when we consider how to equitably educate children who come with all different kinds of minds and cultural backgrounds. The way we think about bodies has lagged sadly behind this. I’ve learned and continue to learn so much from Virginia Sole-Smith’s work (my husband and I are slowly book-clubbing it, as we also have a young child). Grateful for this post, for those who are considering diving in.
Grateful for this comment and your important work! Thank you so much
Here's my tweet from 2021: "I wonder if soon (if this is not already happening) meds will be recommended to so-called normal wt people to prevent future weight gain." Unfortunately I was prescient.
Oof prescient indeed. Thank you for your important work!
as always delighted with your text, kate. cant wait for your book to be published
🙏❤️
Pre-ordered. Absolutely.
I’ve considered your first two books helpful in my second-half-of-life attempt to become a better human being (and have frequently claimed they ought to be part of a grade school curriculum), and I have the same expectation of the third.
It is inspiring to see these topics addressed by a proper philosopher.
🙏❤️
Is “fatphobia” the right word? What you are describing is more of a loathing of or disdain for fat people, not a fear of them. It’s like gynophobia versus misogyny, the former being a fear of women and the latter being a loathing or hatred of women. I’m sure one can find people who actually fear fat people but isn’t the far larger problem a loathing of fat people? By using “phobia,” it’s easy for people to dismiss concerns with, “I don’t fear fat people. So that term obviously doesn’t even apply to me.”
I take the point but use "fatphobia" to be usefully parallel to other social justice concerns like homophobia and transphobia. I also think there *is* a prevalent fear-based component of fatphobia, as this post hopefully brings out via Sole-Smith's work.
Hi Loren, I'd recommend reading Lindley Ashline's On the Choice of Fatphobia here: https://bodyliberationphotos.com/2023/03/22/on-the-choice-of-fatphobia/
In this case particularly I'd argue that fatphobia is the appropriate word to use as parents are so afraid if their children becoming fat that they ignore health issues resulting in weight loss or refuse them medications that may cause weight gain.
Also consider Lindley's words:
I get why people prefer using other terms over fatphobia, and you do you, but I’ve had doctors who couldn’t force themselves to touch me and people starve themselves not to look like me, so maybe lay off on “It’s not a phobia.”
Great comment! Thank you
Ashline labels it as nitpicking (or, like many people complain, “Oh, that’s just semantics” — as if precision is irrelevant). People can use any term they want for the concept. But she does not address the fact many people hear “phobia” and will simply dismiss the label as inapplicable to them because they don’t actually fear fat people. We don’t use “gynophobia” for people who hate or loath women (because hate ≠︎ fear) — instead, we use misogyny.
but they DO fear fatness. Just as a homo- or trans- phobic person fears homosexuality and transness, not individual gay or trans people, but the acceptance of gayness/transness as equally legitimate to any more "mainstream" sexuality or identity. Likewise, our culture of fatphobia does not necessarily mean that individual thin people fear individual fat people. But individuals, and, more crucially, our culture at large, do fear fatness and treat fatness as something to be avoided for oneself and ones children and (at best) pitied in those who have not avoided it. We might not be "afraid" of our fat friends and neighbors, but we *are* and are taught to be afraid of fatness itself.
💯
GCS, it’s a bit like “Abolish the Police!” — if people do not mean “abolish” the police, then they shouldn’t use that term. If they mean reform, even radical reform, they are not seeking to abolish the police. Same with the “prison abolition movement” — few believe we can actually abolish prisons (for those who do, using “abolish” is very helpful to a reader or listener because that is what the writer or speaker actually means). But, in contrast to philosophy or law, sloppy use of language in politics is common — and it makes understanding each other harder if not impossible.
We have a four-month old baby, and I’ve been really struck by all the fatphobia surrounding the eternal debate about breastfeeding vs. formula.
Breastfeeding is great. But the idea that you are “dooming” your child to a life of struggle with weight gain if you give your baby formula is so intense. I’ve heard it from friends and family.
(I think I remember Virginia Sole-Smith writing about this somewhere!)
Oof 100%. This whole conversation drives me to distraction, given (a) there is so little evidence of the benefits of breastfeeding over formula if you have access to clean water (and high-quality formula, of course), and (b) the resulting fatphobia of the grasping-at-straws attempts to defend the "breast is best" line. Emily Oster is good on this, as is Virginia. Wishing you happiness and peace on this journey, whatever your family decides works best for you all.
I mean, by all means, breastfeed, if that’s your or your partner's jam. But formula is also great! And it allows non-gestating partners to participate more easily and fully, which is not nothing imo
Kids are not just prone to fatness.. it’s not genetic. Genetics account for like 10 extra pounds not obesity! Why are more and more children and adults obese today?? More than half the population?! Doctors are not fatphobic they’re trying to steer the majority of the population away from the long list of weight related Illnesses.
Hey Jennifer, perhaps you could read the book, further explore all the links thoughtfully included here, and, here is the crucial part: not leave a comment until you can contribute something other than fat hatred. It does real harm to other readers and is based on ignorance that you have been given every opportunity to correct before you commented on this topic!
This
Saying we need to protect children from obesity related illness is fat hatred? Ok
Yup! You’re throwing fat kids under the bus because of something all our best data shows us is not actually happening, but it is clear to me you are doubling down on your ignorance out of a sense that you are the savior here by asking “but what about the children?” You have some wonderful company with the very worst bigots who love to hide their own fear behind that question. I am sure that will be a comfort to you when you realize that no one here wants to praise your lazy ignorance.
Heart disease is showing up in children who are overweight and the trauma of being an overweight kid is terrible. All you women who are promoting child fatness .. it’s abuse! Shame on you
Mikhaila Peterson eventually found remission from her health issues through what she labeled the 'lion diet' where she eats meat (beef/lamb) and drinks water. I used something similar to put my T2D in remission. Even though we eat a similar diet, we look very different! 😅 Diversity is a thing!