Thank you for this utterly brilliant essay, Professor Manne. I have read, with delirious excitement, almost every word you have written, and I feel compelled to tell you, with huge gratitude, that your work has been life -altering for me. Even though I cared full-time for my beloved first husband, who died after a 3 year battle with brain cancer, I was demonized by his family and friend group for not doing “enough.” To cite just one of innumerable misogynistic punishments: Once, when I left him with his sister, a friend of his, AND his caregiver for a few hours, because as an introvert and writer, it was hard for me to never be alone, the friend sent an email to 20 people criticizing me as a selfish wife (not realizing I was on the thread.) The fact that I craved solitude—a male-coded good—was transgressive in and of itself; but it also confirmed wide-spread suspicion that I was not in fact (to my own shame) transcendently fulfilled in my role as nurse. And because we had no children, I had no excuse to ever leave my dying husband’s side—which a “good” woman can only legitimately do, of course, to care for sb else. (Our cherished rescue dogs didn’t count.) During this period, I could not help but be aware of how all the sexist expectations around my duties as a wife conveniently spared other people from having to share in the burden and sorrows of my husband’s care. Anyway, in addition to grief, I struggled with enormous amounts of guilt and anguish and bewilderment over this scapegoating—until I read, and reread, Down,Girl and Entitlement, rapturously underlining most of every page. Thank you, thank you for clearing away my mystification, and helping me to understand structural misogyny and the role it played in that painful chapter of my life.
Oh my goodness. This means so much to me, and I am LIVID for you about what you went through. Sending you all the solidarity, sympathy, and respect. Xo
There's a lot to be horrified by, but the quote about postmenopausal women stood out to me because describing women by their probable reproductive status is a key indicator of the red pill/incel style of writing. I'd still hate him if he just bragged about his biology professor mother-in-law taking a leave of absence to help out with childcare, or talked about grandmothers, but that postmenopausal bit added an extra pile of horribleness.
I'm a postmenopausal woman, just retired, and although I am more available for my beloved grandchildren, my daughter would be the first one to say no. I have other things I'm doing, other organizations I'm involved in and my own life. Idiot Vance can fuck himself.
There is one other element that makes trans women so vilified. Sexism means that all men everywhere are superior in the things that matter (power, sports, money, politics, etc) than all women. Therefore, (cis) women should envy cis men - trans men are understandable in their desire to "be men" even if they are misguided.
But trans women are betraying the very foundation of sexism. We hear it all the time - why on earth would a "man" want to "become a woman" - something lesser and more vulnerable? It is seen as a deep betrayal, some perversion, and/or some 12 d chess move to attack (cis) girls and women.
“trans men are understandable in their desire to "be men" even if they are misguided.” Do you mean trans men are misguided or the incorrect assumption that they are desiring to be something they are not?
She’s saying that transphobes are not threatened by F-M trans people, because they presume “male” to be the superior identity. Transphobes “understand” the desire to be superior, even though they reject the reality that trans people do not “want” to be the other gender. They “are” the other gender, trapped in the wrong body.
“Misogyny kills. It truly doesn’t matter if a misogynist like Vance is shrugging on the inside, making a cynical bid for power that doesn’t reflect his own attitudes. In this, and so much else, he’s still a textbook illustration.”
Spot ON!!! Thanks for the clear breakdown and explanation! Misogyny kills, it truly does, both bodies and spirits.
Yes, thank you so much for writing this bit in particular. I have had people tell me that JD Vance doesn't actually believe any of this stuff, and I have tried to respond with some version of "I don't care, he's still going to hurt women (and trans folks, etc. etc.) with it" but it's helpful to see it said/written aloud elsewhere, by someone more eloquent.
My satiric take is that Vance is suffering from a problem of catlessness. Nothing that a few kittens wouldn't fix. He probably thinks it is good to be cat-free, but he's wrong and is missing out on a great deal.
"Shady" Vance is scarier than he may look to some, and when he makes his clueless and casually violent remarks about women he’s not just running his mouth to be offensive
He's like Bill Barr and Jeffrey Clark -- the truly damaging things he does are hidden beneath a veneer of White male "respectability" consisting of the nice suit along with the law license and/or fancy educational pedigree plied in conjunction with that Whiteness and maleness.
He wrote the foreword to not ONE, but TWO pro-fascist books -- and Frank Schaeffer has the details (even though he has yet to be invited on a corporate media-owned network to discuss it, even one that leans left)
I am not in any way familiar with the vetting process in American politics. I would not be surprised if, “Recently unearthed audio also showcases Vance agreeing with a conservative talk show host in 2020 that helping raise children “is the whole purpose of the postmenopausal female” was given a pass. It seems on brand for him/the desired policy approach. Mostly, I wanted to say I loved the article.
My speculative theory is that he and Peter Thiel are both rabidly self-hating gay men, and are conducting an illicit affair. Why do I think this? First of all, because Thiel clearly hates gay-coded aesthetics. He doesn't want to sound gay, look gay, or have anyone know he is gay. This makes the "alpha male" his preferred aesthetic. But he obviously is a power hungry freak as well, and is probably a top. He needs a power bottom, therefore, who looks and sounds the opposite of gay. The other reason I think this is because Vance wrote in Hillbilly Elegy that he thought he was gay as a boy, because he didn't like girls, and cherished intimate friendships with other boys--which is normal, of course, but something that he chose to include in his book. Lastly, I don't get any kind of real love vibe from Usha and JD's interactions, but they may just be awkward people. In any case, nobody else I know has proffered this theory. It's just a hunch. There is no truth to it.
I get what you’re reaching at but I’m not that person. It’s an honest expression from somebody who knows how money turns people into hedonists overnight. What’s juicier and more dangerous than their secret man’s boy love sugar daddy affair?
Thank you for another excellent essay. So many lines etched in *bold* in my brain, for me to go back and read again to let sink in deeper. And glad to read again your distinction between sexism and misogyny, with your helpful examples.
I'm very pleased to be totally shirking my postmenopausal womanly duties in the eyes of Vance et al.
In my opinion, there is another component to Vance's misogyny. Republicans will never say this out loud, but the truth is that they are not interested in more NONWHITE babies being born. They just want more WHITE babies. They have now embraced the replacement theory, that used to be just relegated to white supremacy groups and are desperately afraid that has the white portion of the American population slowly gets smaller, they are scared to death of a multiracial, and interracial America. That is why they were scared of Barack Obama, and they are doubly scared of Kamala Harris.
Thank you for this utterly brilliant essay, Professor Manne. I have read, with delirious excitement, almost every word you have written, and I feel compelled to tell you, with huge gratitude, that your work has been life -altering for me. Even though I cared full-time for my beloved first husband, who died after a 3 year battle with brain cancer, I was demonized by his family and friend group for not doing “enough.” To cite just one of innumerable misogynistic punishments: Once, when I left him with his sister, a friend of his, AND his caregiver for a few hours, because as an introvert and writer, it was hard for me to never be alone, the friend sent an email to 20 people criticizing me as a selfish wife (not realizing I was on the thread.) The fact that I craved solitude—a male-coded good—was transgressive in and of itself; but it also confirmed wide-spread suspicion that I was not in fact (to my own shame) transcendently fulfilled in my role as nurse. And because we had no children, I had no excuse to ever leave my dying husband’s side—which a “good” woman can only legitimately do, of course, to care for sb else. (Our cherished rescue dogs didn’t count.) During this period, I could not help but be aware of how all the sexist expectations around my duties as a wife conveniently spared other people from having to share in the burden and sorrows of my husband’s care. Anyway, in addition to grief, I struggled with enormous amounts of guilt and anguish and bewilderment over this scapegoating—until I read, and reread, Down,Girl and Entitlement, rapturously underlining most of every page. Thank you, thank you for clearing away my mystification, and helping me to understand structural misogyny and the role it played in that painful chapter of my life.
Oh my goodness. This means so much to me, and I am LIVID for you about what you went through. Sending you all the solidarity, sympathy, and respect. Xo
There's a lot to be horrified by, but the quote about postmenopausal women stood out to me because describing women by their probable reproductive status is a key indicator of the red pill/incel style of writing. I'd still hate him if he just bragged about his biology professor mother-in-law taking a leave of absence to help out with childcare, or talked about grandmothers, but that postmenopausal bit added an extra pile of horribleness.
I'm a postmenopausal woman, just retired, and although I am more available for my beloved grandchildren, my daughter would be the first one to say no. I have other things I'm doing, other organizations I'm involved in and my own life. Idiot Vance can fuck himself.
There is one other element that makes trans women so vilified. Sexism means that all men everywhere are superior in the things that matter (power, sports, money, politics, etc) than all women. Therefore, (cis) women should envy cis men - trans men are understandable in their desire to "be men" even if they are misguided.
But trans women are betraying the very foundation of sexism. We hear it all the time - why on earth would a "man" want to "become a woman" - something lesser and more vulnerable? It is seen as a deep betrayal, some perversion, and/or some 12 d chess move to attack (cis) girls and women.
Transphobia is at its heart rooted in sexism.
“trans men are understandable in their desire to "be men" even if they are misguided.” Do you mean trans men are misguided or the incorrect assumption that they are desiring to be something they are not?
She’s saying that transphobes are not threatened by F-M trans people, because they presume “male” to be the superior identity. Transphobes “understand” the desire to be superior, even though they reject the reality that trans people do not “want” to be the other gender. They “are” the other gender, trapped in the wrong body.
The latter. Trans men are men
“Misogyny kills. It truly doesn’t matter if a misogynist like Vance is shrugging on the inside, making a cynical bid for power that doesn’t reflect his own attitudes. In this, and so much else, he’s still a textbook illustration.”
Spot ON!!! Thanks for the clear breakdown and explanation! Misogyny kills, it truly does, both bodies and spirits.
Yes, thank you so much for writing this bit in particular. I have had people tell me that JD Vance doesn't actually believe any of this stuff, and I have tried to respond with some version of "I don't care, he's still going to hurt women (and trans folks, etc. etc.) with it" but it's helpful to see it said/written aloud elsewhere, by someone more eloquent.
Right?
My satiric take is that Vance is suffering from a problem of catlessness. Nothing that a few kittens wouldn't fix. He probably thinks it is good to be cat-free, but he's wrong and is missing out on a great deal.
Yes!! Also, catless people are not truly invested in the future of the country, so how can he possibly be trusted?
"Shady" Vance is scarier than he may look to some, and when he makes his clueless and casually violent remarks about women he’s not just running his mouth to be offensive
He's like Bill Barr and Jeffrey Clark -- the truly damaging things he does are hidden beneath a veneer of White male "respectability" consisting of the nice suit along with the law license and/or fancy educational pedigree plied in conjunction with that Whiteness and maleness.
He wrote the foreword to not ONE, but TWO pro-fascist books -- and Frank Schaeffer has the details (even though he has yet to be invited on a corporate media-owned network to discuss it, even one that leans left)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdTrqfIzsco
I am not in any way familiar with the vetting process in American politics. I would not be surprised if, “Recently unearthed audio also showcases Vance agreeing with a conservative talk show host in 2020 that helping raise children “is the whole purpose of the postmenopausal female” was given a pass. It seems on brand for him/the desired policy approach. Mostly, I wanted to say I loved the article.
great essay--and a good lesson in how the seemingly banal pro-family statements from people like Vance can encode a political agenda
Sadly Vance and his MAGA brethren believe in having a Brood Mare, not a wife or partner.
My speculative theory is that he and Peter Thiel are both rabidly self-hating gay men, and are conducting an illicit affair. Why do I think this? First of all, because Thiel clearly hates gay-coded aesthetics. He doesn't want to sound gay, look gay, or have anyone know he is gay. This makes the "alpha male" his preferred aesthetic. But he obviously is a power hungry freak as well, and is probably a top. He needs a power bottom, therefore, who looks and sounds the opposite of gay. The other reason I think this is because Vance wrote in Hillbilly Elegy that he thought he was gay as a boy, because he didn't like girls, and cherished intimate friendships with other boys--which is normal, of course, but something that he chose to include in his book. Lastly, I don't get any kind of real love vibe from Usha and JD's interactions, but they may just be awkward people. In any case, nobody else I know has proffered this theory. It's just a hunch. There is no truth to it.
I get what you’re reaching at but I’m not that person. It’s an honest expression from somebody who knows how money turns people into hedonists overnight. What’s juicier and more dangerous than their secret man’s boy love sugar daddy affair?
h
Are you a AI?
I love the way you so deftly explain the link between rolling back women's repro rights and demonizing of trans folks as "playing with gender"
Thank you for another excellent essay. So many lines etched in *bold* in my brain, for me to go back and read again to let sink in deeper. And glad to read again your distinction between sexism and misogyny, with your helpful examples.
I'm very pleased to be totally shirking my postmenopausal womanly duties in the eyes of Vance et al.
Once again, you've said the words that were in in my heart, just waiting to be articulated. Thank you.
This is an amazing, insightful discussion. Thank you, Kate.
In my opinion, there is another component to Vance's misogyny. Republicans will never say this out loud, but the truth is that they are not interested in more NONWHITE babies being born. They just want more WHITE babies. They have now embraced the replacement theory, that used to be just relegated to white supremacy groups and are desperately afraid that has the white portion of the American population slowly gets smaller, they are scared to death of a multiracial, and interracial America. That is why they were scared of Barack Obama, and they are doubly scared of Kamala Harris.
I see that JD says he loves his wife because she is a good mom. A good mom, not a good woman, or a good wife or a good person. WOW!